Terraplane woes

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User]
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Hooked up a vacum gage on the 37 Terraplane it reads a steady 17 on the gage. adjusted carb idle screw in and out without effecting idle speed? might i have a intake manifold leak? Chuck

Comments

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Chuck, I had manifold leaks, bad carbs, the whole works. I rebuilt the carbs, then I pulled the manifolds and found all the back cylinders with manifold leaks, bottom bolts were all loose, replaced gaskets and tightened everything up, installed rebuilt carbs and now she purrs like a kitten. I think you have the right idea, follow through on it, it is worth the effort.



    Harry
  • hudsonsplasher1
    hudsonsplasher1 Senior Contributor
    Chuck G wrote:
    Hooked up a vacum gage on the 37 Terraplane it reads a steady 17 on the gage. adjusted carb idle screw in and out without effecting idle speed? might i have a intake manifold leak? Chuck



    Chuck;

    A steady reading of 17 indicates late ign. timing. Normal engine should read about 20, give or take a little at idle. A leaking manifold or heat riser will read much lower. Worth checking though. How is the carb gasket? Your idle adjustment screw should be 1 to 1 1/2 turns open from closed. Don't get discouraged, you'll figure it out.
  • tigermoth
    tigermoth Expert Adviser
    chuck, i also think you should continue to work towards either finding the manifold leak or not finding it there by eliminating it as a problem. when you talk about the idle screw, you are refering to the idle mixture screw not the idle speed adjustment screw, correct? as long as you are looking at the mixture part of the equation is your automatic choke functioning and adjusted properly? for what it is worth an old mechanic once told me "90% of carburetor problems are caused by the ignition"...in other words these carbs are more reliable than the ignition side, but the carbs have all of these really interesting knobs, screws and mechanisms that are SOOOO accessible that guys go there first when a prper troubleshooting scheme would lead them somewhere else. best of luck. regards, tom
  • tigermoth
    tigermoth Expert Adviser
    another note chuck, the latest issue of skinned knuckles magazine has a really good article ...step by step.... for troubleshooting the ignition system. if not now, perhaps for future reference. regards, tom
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Thanks for the replys guys the carb is a w-1 carter 1 bbl. so it is a manual choke and there is just a idle mixture screw which according to the shop manual it is turned into seat and only backed out one-half to one full turn . Carb gasket is new. I have never seen an issue of skinned knuckles i will have to look into subscribing sounds like a good magizine from what i have heard. I ordered a new manifold intake set from Dale Cooper even though the other one was only a couple years old. Thanks Chuck
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Chuck;



    check the end of the needle valve, if there is a groove it may have been tightened too much and so isn't working any longer. There won't be much, it will just be slight ring an 1/8th of an inch or so from the point. I've found that often when the needle valve doesn't create a change when adjusted. If you find the groove replace the needle valve and make sure you don't take it down tight, just to contact then open it 1/2 to 1 turn and see what happens.



    Harry
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    HI CHUCK, atta boy,get back at it ! Getting several ideas again. So how about you getting us all up to speed on what you have checked and prooven, you'll get better advice then. Plenty of spark I reckon or it would'nt run at all. Does the carb bowl stay full of fuel ? Manifold vacume leaks. I've done this several times. Take some kids play dough or some real heavy grease such as wheel bearing, use lots so it don't pull it all in real quick and put it all around where it mounts, pack it good it'll come off again,works on carb mount also.Play dough works best as it seals a bigger leak if things are clean and dry and you can get it to stick. It'll seal the leak temporarilly. Climb the ladder one step at a time and you'll get to the top. Got spark- carb bowl stays full- no vacume leaks, then go after the carb itself.
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    I thought that a quick check for a leaky intake manifold, was simply to spray a combustable liquid around the joint (betwixt manifold and block) to see if suddenly the engine surged? I don't recall if that spray would be ether, or some sort of oil. Using one of those tiny "straws" (like they furnish with spray-type penetrating oil) would be helpful. Once you've done that quick test, you can "x" the manifold leak off your troubleshooting list.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Yup, that works on minor leaks that cause it to run bad, I use heavy soap for that. As I understand it this thing won't draw enough fuel to keep it running, that says if it is vacume leak it's BIG TIME over an area too large to keep sprayed.
  • junkcarfann
    junkcarfann Expert Adviser
    Spraying combustible liquid around the engine to find a intake leak is an old mechanic's trick.



    However, I suggest using an UNLIT propane torch. The engine will respond to the propane just like the other liquids, but it is a bit safer because you are not having a flammable liquid overspray contact the car, etc.
  • drdoug
    drdoug Senior Contributor
    hudsonsplasher1 wrote:
    Chuck;

    A steady reading of 17 indicates late ign. timing. Normal engine should read about 20, give or take a little at idle. A leaking manifold or heat riser will read much lower. Worth checking though. How is the carb gasket? Your idle adjustment screw should be 1 to 1 1/2 turns open from closed. Don't get discouraged, you'll figure it out.



    Something else to check that is related here.Ignition timing can be the problem but it could also be the timing gear is worn,which in turn causes late timing.Check the engine compression,and if it is equally low,you might want to check the timing gears.Hopefully you discover what is ailing it before you have to pull the nose off.I did buy a special tools book when I was in Hershey last week from that guy in Buffalo,think his name is Spank Huluie:D:eek: .It shows the special vibration damper puller for these cars.It allows you access around the frame.Good luck
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    Following up on the "propane" suggestion, I wonder if one might attach a 2-foot length of rubber hose (somewhat larger in diameter than a gasoline line) to the propane torch, in order to more easily direct the stream of propane to crevices around the intake manifold.



    One might also use the hose as a sort of stethoscope, holding one end to one's ear and guiding the other end to suspected leak points around the engine. The precise location(s) of any vacuum leaks could be more easily pinpointed by this method.



    However, don't hold the hose too close to your ear or the vacuum from the engine may suck the brains entirely out of your head. In the past, certain auto mechanics who have worked on my Brand-X, were apparently suffering the effects of this unfortunate catastrophe.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Jon vacuum can be bad ! Anyway like i have said i tried new plugwires, plugs cond. checked timing with timing light reset alittle advanced acouple degree with todays fuel. carb had been rebuilt but i tried new carb gaskets anyway . Tried squirting alittle marvel mystery oil down carb thought maybe valves sticking? tried new fuel pump, unhooked line from tank to pump and let it pump out of another container eliminating gas tank, have not tried new ign. points? Distributor adv. seems to be working it moves right away when engine is speed up. No popping or banging I dont have a tach to put on it but as you steadily increase rpm it gets to about 1200 rpm and bogs out. You can drive around the block just not over that rpm any more rpm and it bogs out till you let up on gas pedal back to low rpm again I ordered a new intake set from Dale C wont be here till next week . Have manifold off so maybe i will check base of carb to see if its flat , it would have to be really bad to cause this cond? Thanks Chuck G
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I'm not useing the w-1 carter, but does that carb have a flaper type valve at the top that has to open at higher rpm's ? Or was that something else I was dideling with a while back ? You guys familiar with it check me out on this,might be what's wrong here
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Yes thats the carb. the flapper is open at idle then closes when you accelerate it can really work only one way.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    OK, I had it backwards tho. If that has or supposed to have a cork seal is it shutting off completely ? From what you say it now starts,idles/runs up to about 1200 ok. Right ? That then would eliminate the vacume leak question ,spark ,timeing ,advance, everything but a problem with the carb itself, Right ? Yeah, I remember now, I had one of those and could'nt get it straightened out, messed up in too many ways. Put on a differant model rebuilt one, had to braze a peice on the linkage to use it { I'd have to check the car to see what, can do if you want } and it's runnin fine.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    C'mon now you'll get there. Want to try this ? Use the propane trick, or WD-40 is much safer if you can get it to the carb somehow, won't bend any rods or other possable misshap. Got an air pig? Put some WD-40 in it, it comes in non pressureized containers also and air it up, only rig a hose so it goes from the cab to the carb when you're driving, have it fastened good so it stays where you put it. When it gets to the rpm where it stalls out give it some propane or whatever you use, wont matter if it totally smoothes out or not,but if it picks up some revs that would show that it is definately starveing for fuel and the carb is the problem.. If that prooves correct I think I'd quit that carb and use another one. By the way ,the carb should have a heat sink type gasket about 1/4--3/8 thick under it to guard against vapor lock in the carb. With the pig setup anything readily combustible can be used,gasoline,alchohol, got a gas BBQ grill? you can use it,
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    From what I understand, your car will not sustain any r.p.m., so forget about vacuum leaks, as these would affect it worst at idle speed, and don;t just suddenly happen. Check your valve timing, fuel pump delivery, and distributor timing. Get a can of "Engine Start" (Ether), and squirt it down the thraat when the starving occurs. if the engine speeds up you have a fuel delivery problem. My guess is still the centre of the timing gear shifted.

    Geoff.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Geoff

    I do have the intake already off and waiting for a intake set to come. I do agree a vacuum leak would cause trouble at low idle speed I put a timing light on it and the marks are were they should be and it does start up without cranking other than what would be normal , i think this would rule out cam gear turning on its hub? Chuck
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    The "shifting timing gear hub" syndrome is an intermittent problem; sometimes you'll be in time....sometimes not.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Chuck G wrote:
    Geoff

    I do have the intake already off and waiting for a intake set to come. I do agree a vacuum leak would cause trouble at low idle speed I put a timing light on it and the marks are were they should be and it does start up without cranking other than what would be normal , i think this would rule out cam gear turning on its hub? Chuck



    Okay, that sounds logical - if you haven't altered the ignition timing, then the timing gear is most likely still intact. So now you need to check ignition intensity, that you have a full fat white spark, and full voltage to the coil. I had a problem years ago with my Essex, the ignition switch had high resistance, and I couldn't get over 30 m.p.h. Replaced the switch and it was fine. So check that you have 6 volts at the coil. If you are still having problems, then you will have to check the fuel delivery. I understand you have also changed carburettors, so it is unlikely you have two with the same fault, but don't rule out this possibility.

    Geoff.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    HI CHUCK, sure understand your frustration.Somewhere we're missing something,and that is the reason I maintain get on one thing,proove it out and then do not change it.Lets go to square one. If this car has been sitting a long time I would drop the fuel tank,clean it out, I use a steam cleaner for this, dump in a quart of rubbing alcohol and slosh it aruond and dump it out, it'll mix with any moisture and what little is left in will then burn any time it is drawn up.take the pickup assembly out and check the tube for pin holes.Replace any old rubber lines and blowing air thru all lines while apart.Get 100% sure no fuel delivery problem to the carb.Then, provideing the carb bowl is always full of fuel at ALL times you have a manual choke, when it stalls out you can just choke it to see if fuel is the problem, lack of fuel usually causes poping at first, then goes mushy, overfueling usually just goes mushy, NOT ALWAYS but gives an idea what to look for. Don't need all those other ideas. Get that done and then useing a multimeter we'll go after the electric end from the switch on thru to the other end . DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING,PROOVE IT,then do not change and go to next phase.Stay on one thing untill it is prooven out.
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