supermatic ?

drivergo2

A quick and dumb question, What is a supermatic and what is its function. Thanks John drivergo2:)

Jon B

As I understand it, Supermatic is the overdrive version of Drive-Master. If you choose to enable it through a pushbutton on the dashboard, you can make your upshifts by releasing the accelerator momentarily at each shift point; the car then shifts into the next-higher gear (the clutch goes in and the gear lever actually moves to the next position, automatically). When you get to third, releasing the accelerator makes the shift into overdrive.



Actually, this semi-automatic shift to overdrive, from 3rd gear, is normal in any overdrive-equipped car.



Super-Matic is not the same as an automatic transmission, since it requires a prompt from the driver at each step of the way, via the momentary release of the accelerator. Also, it does not (I believe) downshift.



At least that's what I understand, and it'll have to do until someone who actually knows, comes along!

Unknown

High cruising/overdrive gear came in at about 22 mph. For reserve power and passing, Supermatic downshifted to a reserve power gear. At about 10-13 mph, it shifted back into first. I believe you could stop and take off again, just like an automatic. A very cleavor but complicated system.

53jetman

With Drivemaster, or Supermatic, you would place the shift lever into third gear and the car actually started out in second gear. At any speed above 15 mph you would simply lift your foot off of the accellerator pedal momentarily and it would shift automaticly into third gear, then power on up to about 20 to 25 mph (or more), lift you toe again, and the car would then go into overdrive ( if equiped with OD). Upon slowing down, the car would automaticly downshift from OD to third and then to 2nd. You never had to touch the shift lever. When it worked as designed, it was a real pleasure to drive. But my dad blamed all of his grey hair on the Electric Hand, and Drive Master-Supermatic. Howver, he was one of the few that could make them work as they should.



53jetman

Jerry

Unknown

Other than Jerry's dad, I doubt few people ever had a smooth working supermatic. I have seen a few car at shows with it equipped, and I am not sure whether they even work, properly, or at all. When I got my car, the entire upper assembly was removed, and missing. The vacuum line was cut and crimped. I found the upper unit, and now have two heavy door stops, because I will likely never put it on the car.



From my understanding, the car would in fact downshift automatically, and maybe Jerry can verify, as to whether the shifter would move by it's own.

Unknown

Didn't Hudson publish an owner's guide on how to use the Supermatic?

Unknown

yeah, it's in the owner's manual, I think...

I'll try to get a copy of it up, for all to see.

Hudsy Wudsy

I don't have time to look it up right now, but I'm fairly certain that "Supermatic" was just the name the Marketing Department called the Drivemaster in 1950.

Unknown

James P. wrote:

I don't have time to look it up right now, but I'm fairly certain that "Supermatic" was just the name the Marketing Department called the Drivemaster in 1950.

I think as said above, supermatic was drivemaster with OD, in 1950. I don't kno what it was called in 48-49, because I got to think that drive master was always available with OD....

Hudsy Wudsy

I think that Drivemaster (or in '50, Supermatic) refered to the vaccuum operated "automatic" shifting part, but it could be had with or without overdrive.

Unknown

In 50, drivemaster with OD was supermatic, drivemaster without was just plain drivemaster..... I don't know if you could even get a 50 with just drivemaster, seems by 50, it was supermatic, or wait for a hydramatic in 51. Does anyone know whether drivemaster was available in 50, meaning no OD?



It comes down to looking like a snazzy marketing name, I guess..... I kept the emblems on my car, the dash switch is great for conversation. I like to push the buttons once and a while when I drive it, even if no one is along....

Unknown

Drivemaster was dropped in 1950.

50C8DAN

I do believe that you could order Drivemaster on the Pacemaker only in '51, everything else got the Hydromatic. It probably was to just use up left over stock from '50 and before. From what I was told you could not get Drivemaster w/ OD except for '50 which as Hudson Kid notes it was then Supermatic.

super-six

The only automatic that was available in the '51 Super Six was Drivemaster or Supermatic.

rambos_ride

I've been wanting to ask this question since I don't yet have an owners manual for the 50

Sounds like a lot of rumors, vodoo, hearsay and speculation about the exact working of the "mystery box"

Altough I don't like the looks of it sitting in the engine compartment - I think it would be neat to have a working unit (if it's all there) on my 50.

Unknown

super-six wrote:

The only automatic that was available in the '51 Super Six was Drivemaster or Supermatic.

I beg to differ....



we looked at a 51 super six convertible just two saturdays ago, that was pretty much untouched since the early 60's and it was very much a hydramatic car.

Unknown

rambos_ride wrote:

I've been wanting to ask this question since I don't yet have an owners manual for the 50



Sounds like a lot of rumors, vodoo, hearsay and speculation about the exact working of the "mystery box"



Altough I don't like the looks of it sitting in the engine compartment - I think it would be neat to have a working unit (if it's all there) on my 50.

The diaphragm is available from KGAP, after that, goto a few hudson meets, and you will find almost all of the parts you need. I would wager the system will be able to function, just not ever consistent, or well.



Yours looked fairly complete, but I think my choice, with that twin H setup, in the trunk, and the idea of an oil filter, my choice was easy. Twin H really made my hudson come alive.



food for thought....

rambos_ride

hudsonkid wrote:

The diaphragm is available from KGAP, after that, goto a few hudson meets, and you will find almost all of the parts you need. I would wager the system will be able to function, just not ever consistent, or well.

Yours looked fairly complete, but I think my choice, with that twin H setup, in the trunk, and the idea of an oil filter, my choice was easy. Twin H really made my hudson come alive.

food for thought....

OK - what's this talk of an oil filter? I could swear there's one already on the engine...?

50C8DAN

I think what Hudsonkid is referring to is that the stock location of the oil filter on a six is where the Supermatic system fits. However, since it is not integral to the block you could the filter elsewhere.

Unknown

rambos_ride wrote:

OK - what's this talk of an oil filter? I could swear there's one already on the engine...?

good, you're 2/3rd's the way there...



try putting twin H on yet, with working supermatic, and an oil filter, then you're my hero!

super-six

hudsonkid wrote:

I beg to differ....



we looked at a 51 super six convertible just two saturdays ago, that was pretty much untouched since the early 60's and it was very much a hydramatic car.

I guess it's a matter of what you want to use as documentation. Form No. AM 5103, dated 9-50, states "Hydra-Matic Drive, optional at extra cost for Hornet and Commodore Custom series". Maybe there was a running change in the option list. Or maybe the Hudson convertible was not original.

Nevada Hudson

My 1950 Commodore 6 still has the "SUPERMATIC DRIVE" emblem on the trunk above the HUDSON emblem. Looks neat! So do the push buttons ! Was Hudson the first with push buttons? Some one took out the Supermatic before the car was aquired, but without it ,can start out in 2nd gear from a dead stop. Saves some shifting! The late,George Schmidt, was the world's authority on it. He will be missed!

Unknown

super-six wrote:

I guess it's a matter of what you want to use as documentation. Form No. AM 5103, dated 9-50, states "Hydra-Matic Drive, optional at extra cost for Hornet and Commodore Custom series". Maybe there was a running change in the option list. Or maybe the Hudson convertible was not original.

It doesn't say that it is not available on the super series. I would have to think there was a change in 51. Also, the same place, we came across a 51 pacemaker coupe that was very much a hydramatic.

50C8DAN

Here is the '50 Owner's Manual Supermatic and Drivemaster info as well as the other transmission information. If this is not readable I can send the full size scans, just send me your email address.

Unknown

Now that's some good reading. Thanks for sharing this.

drdoug

Well,I'm one of those crazy people that make these work.It works on my Dad's 46 C8cv,but has recently decided to only partially function,and should work on Jeff Perkin's 49 C6,but I just haven't had the time to diagnose it.Brian Vanbuskirk's 50 C8 did work until the engine had bad vacuum problems,now getting a total rebuild.Larry Kennedy's 50 C8cv,which Larry has owned for 35 years,has always worked,but quit.He says he was able to clean the contacts in the control box and is working again.I had a 49C8sd.,now in the musuem in Hartford,Wi.that it worked on.I fixed it several times,in the 6000 miles I put on it,from 18,000 to 24,000 original miles.I really can't read what is posted on those pages but,in 1950[Supermatic]they just installed the push button on/off switch on the dash and got rid of the 2 way switch,which was just the vacuum clutch if selected or the full HDM.As far as I can tell,the on/off change was to try and make it more"automatic'.When using the HDM/Supermatic option,you turned it on,put the shifter into 2nd.gear,then into the 3rd.gear position.When working properly,it would engage it,making the shifter lever inside the car become inop..Now the vehicle takes off in 2nd.gear-this is why the parts book shows different part#'s for the HDM-vs.-without HDM-2nd.gear is lower when equipped with HDM.Once you come up to the speed, it needs to shift,picked up by the governor[modern day term- speed sensor ]on the back of the transmission[these are the governors you see laying around at parts meets,twice as big as the others-some are a push on multi pin connector and some are numbered with multi-bullet type[different years]--it locks the accelerator pedal out,done by the cable you see coming from the small diaphram under the hood going to the accel linkage-this is a 5/16's-24 threaded rod with 2 nuts on it,it shifts into gear,then releases the lock out and is now shifted into high gear.HDM and Supermatic function almost the same,as far as I can tell,other than the Supermatic,when working correct,will automatically lock the accelerator out,even if you have the pedal jammed to the floor,then once it has shifted,release the lock-out and accelerate.If ANY component does not operate perfectly,then HDM/Supermatic will not work.It is not uncommon to be able to make the vacuum clutch work,engage/disengage,but to make it all work must have been a real nightmare for the mechanics.I relate the HDM to the late 70's Cadillacs with 4-6-8-system,those really didn't work either!!! I'm sure this will confuse you now.Also,the shop manual was so hard to read,and of course,if you didn't have all that test equipment it shows,you would just be lost!! I'm also sure that dealers would NOT order that equipment to test and repair them,so they could just say'Sorry,we don't work on those!!":rolleyes:

53jetman

As far as I know, Drive Master was always available with or without overdrive, the marketing people just decided to give it all a more jazy name for 1950. Also, you could order only Drive Master in 1950, however, the cost differential was nil. My dad had a small dealership, but had customers from all over Ohio Indiana & Michigan come to him to service the Electric Hand, Drive Master & Supermatic - most of these distant customers were recommended by the Distributor or Zone Service Managers to see Vic Bean in Leipsic OH!



In 1951, only the Commodore and Hornet models were available with Hydra- matic at first, but about mid-year Hydramatic became available on all models.



If the Pacemaker was ordered with Hudramatic, the customer also had to opt for the 262 engine.



53jetman

Jerry